The eminent political-liberal magazine entitled Newstateman dedicated last week its Faith Column completely to the Hellenic polytheism by four contributions from Tropaion’s contributors, James Head (aka James O’Dell) and me.
The first two days my friend and colleague James Head, known as James O’Dell, contributes two pieces dedicated to, the first, his epiphany at Delphi and, second, his personal view on Hellenic polytheism, faith conversion, personal deviation and gods existence. Under the title, therefore, 'The ancient gods of Greece are not extinct', James in a condensed and light manner underlines the importance of religious tolerance and non-discrimination of the spiritual believes of men, the meaning of been in communication with the gods. He says:
Sacred areas are part, also, of the course towards the person to god interconnection. The house, the local park, a special place that an offering, such as a libation, is been devoted are well acknowledge by the divine. The act, therefore, of religious praxis is so closely interrelated with the spiritual devotion.
One last point that James points out very beautifully is the matter of ‘divine book(s)’ –dogma– driven religions and the ‘true’ knowledge that, as a result, possess. He states:
James past spiritual background was exactly what chiefly exists in England: non-religious and mostly atheistic leaning attitude, in addition, as a schoolteacher and mathematician, had an extreme scientific view of the world. However, his visit at Delphi altered his life and perspective of cosmos. For twelve years spends unlimited time at Delphi. Apollo, the god of science –self-realization, of healing and protection, and of arts– is his assistant.
As far as for my two articles, I tried to be broader and to analyse the concept of liberal-democratic thought and structure of the ancient Greek city-state under the influence of the ancient Greek religion (here). Finally, I gave the reason I felt important why the household religiosity in ancient Greek religion was essential for polytheism (here).
Please find some time to read them and comment them. I would be very happy to see familiar weblogers personas at the comments’ field!
The first two days my friend and colleague James Head, known as James O’Dell, contributes two pieces dedicated to, the first, his epiphany at Delphi and, second, his personal view on Hellenic polytheism, faith conversion, personal deviation and gods existence. Under the title, therefore, 'The ancient gods of Greece are not extinct', James in a condensed and light manner underlines the importance of religious tolerance and non-discrimination of the spiritual believes of men, the meaning of been in communication with the gods. He says:
The advice of the ancient Greek poet Pindar (518 - 438 b.c.) has special importance to me when it comes to our relationships with the Gods and religious practice. Pindar talks about the dea of “phillea”, that is, the idea of a personal "friendship" with our chosen God. We are lucky in that we can enjoy this special friendly relationship with our God and pray to Apollo as we would talk to a close and respected friend.
Sacred areas are part, also, of the course towards the person to god interconnection. The house, the local park, a special place that an offering, such as a libation, is been devoted are well acknowledge by the divine. The act, therefore, of religious praxis is so closely interrelated with the spiritual devotion.
One last point that James points out very beautifully is the matter of ‘divine book(s)’ –dogma– driven religions and the ‘true’ knowledge that, as a result, possess. He states:
Knowledge of all sorts is seen positively by us, but the reading of our many ancient texts such as the tragedies helps us with religious enlightenment. One thing which does amuse me is that a few small minded people criticise us because we are "not people of a book" when the truth is that we had so many books on various subjects; indeed libraries full of them.
James past spiritual background was exactly what chiefly exists in England: non-religious and mostly atheistic leaning attitude, in addition, as a schoolteacher and mathematician, had an extreme scientific view of the world. However, his visit at Delphi altered his life and perspective of cosmos. For twelve years spends unlimited time at Delphi. Apollo, the god of science –self-realization, of healing and protection, and of arts– is his assistant.
Apollo for me is a divine force that guides us towards goodness and virtue, and away from darkness and badness in our thoughts and actions.
As far as for my two articles, I tried to be broader and to analyse the concept of liberal-democratic thought and structure of the ancient Greek city-state under the influence of the ancient Greek religion (here). Finally, I gave the reason I felt important why the household religiosity in ancient Greek religion was essential for polytheism (here).
Please find some time to read them and comment them. I would be very happy to see familiar weblogers personas at the comments’ field!
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4 comments:
The piece stressing the importance of household worship seems like straightforward good sense. Is this attitude and the support you gave for it considered uncontroversial, and if not why not and who thinks it is not correct?
I didn't like the "liberal religion" piece as much, which is to be expected as political philosophy is always controversial.
"A society (nation) has to be free of taboos and moral restrictions if it is to be able to easily absorb foreign thought as its own."
There were no taboos in Greek religion? There was no miasma? There were no moral restrictions? No "kindly ones"? Nothing? Really?
"Humility does not appear in Greek Polytheistic worship because the first principle of the Greek religion is the dignity of the individual."
I can't quite pin down the real reason why, but I don't like this statement.
In dealing with Greek gods, it seems to me an attitude destitute of humility could be unsafe.
"It was a religion for the state, not a religion of the state."
What does that mean?
"The law of men was above the divine."
What does that mean?
In Aeschylus' Suppliants, weren't the suppliant maidens appealing for the protection of Zeus, even though it was politically inconvenient to grant them that?
"Greeks recognized their divinities and religious practises as essential and important, turning to them whenever they felt the need."
In "essential and important" what is the difference in what you mean by these two words? Are you pointing to something specific?
"Greek polytheistic notion was a matter of joy and gladness, leaving no space for absorbed thoughts, empowerment and / or mystic devotion."
I don't know what that means, I'm doubtful if it's true. (Though not knowing what you mean I can't tell.)
And if it was true that joy and gladness left no "space" for "absorbed thoughts, empowerment and / or mystic devotion" wouldn't that mean Greek religion was impoverished by that?
What is wrong with empowerment? What is wrong with mystic devotion? What is wrong with absorbed thoughts?
And, you don't say even in one sentence what you mean by "liberalism". It is a controversial and ambiguous political term.
And many people would not automatically think of Sparta, for example, as a model of liberalism.
Thanks David for your comment! I will try in brief to answer your questions.
The household worship should not be considered uncontroversial and for those who think that is litigious mainly believe that nowadays private worship will confine the public face of Hellenism.
The article on the ‘liberal notion’ of the ancient Greek religion indeed is mainly a political piece rather than an anthropological one. I did not state what ‘liberal’ means, because the periodical had plenty of articles available explaining the term. Let us, however, say that ‘liberal’ is the ‘idea’ of an individual’s ability to act according to his or her own will –based on John Stuart Mill’s eminent work On Liberty.
I saw, therefore, ancient Greek society from above –meaning its political constitutions and laws– which give an image that resembles Mill’s ideas. We must also understand the extremely different concept of the term ‘taboo’ in the ancient times. If we agree that ‘taboo’ is a strong social prohibition then I should clarify that in that case I implied taboos towards race and ethnicity, discriminatory and prejudiced attitudes. Also, miasma is the outcome of a ‘prohibited action’ which was always considered as of external cause; therefore, the man who carried the miasma had no blame.
I would like to further discuss the issue of humility in the ancient Greek religion, but I rather for now give you a reference to a marvelous article written back in 1897 by Arthur Fairbanks entitled Attitudes of Worship in Greece (on The Biblical World, vol. 9, no. 2 pp. 98-111) where he studies and explains its in full.
I pointed out the 'importance' of the worship and religion in matters of the individual needs and the 'essential' points to the existence of the divine. Here is a good point to underline that ‘the needs’ of ancient Greeks was not spiritual -which in today terms focuses on personal experience- but rather a matter of communal contact and joy. That is why there ware not "absorbed thoughts, empowerment and / or mystic devotion".
I hope that passably answer your questions. As you see the article –as all the material based on political philosophy- have plenty of room for debate…!
As far as for Sparta and liberalism you can check the Sparta Journal and its forthcoming articles…at http://www.sparta.markoulakispublications.org.uk/
Thanks for your prompt and thoughtful answer!
"The household worship should not be considered uncontroversial and for those who think that is litigious mainly believe that nowadays private worship will confine the public face of Hellenism."
Your English is unclear there, but I think I understand you.
Even if what you said is contested, it still looks like good sense to me. :)
I've read John Steward Mill's On Liberty. Pointing to it is a good answer. One of the things John Stewart Mill says is that the public contest of ideas is valuable and should not be shut down by authority. Of course, this is Greek.
So, in this sense, Greek religion, which gave birth to a culture of questioning, debating and demanding answers with reasons, not divine dictates alone, is liberal, or at least it proved a good matrix for liberalism.
"If we agree that ‘taboo’ is a strong social prohibition then I should clarify that in that case I implied taboos towards race and ethnicity, discriminatory and prejudiced attitudes. Also, miasma is the outcome of a ‘prohibited action’ which was always considered as of external cause; therefore, the man who carried the miasma had no blame."
Those are helpful clarifications.
"I would like to further discuss the issue of humility in the ancient Greek religion, but I rather for now give you a reference to a marvelous article written back in 1897 by Arthur Fairbanks entitled Attitudes of Worship in Greece (on The Biblical World, vol. 9, no. 2 pp. 98-111) where he studies and explains its in full."
It sounds like I should read that. Is it collected in an anthology somewhere, or what would be the easiest way to find it?
"I pointed out the 'importance' of the worship and religion in matters of the individual needs and the 'essential' points to the existence of the divine. Here is a good point to underline that ‘the needs’ of ancient Greeks was not spiritual -which in today terms focuses on personal experience- but rather a matter of communal contact and joy. That is why there ware not "absorbed thoughts, empowerment and / or mystic devotion".
I hope that passably answer your questions."
More than passably. :)
"As you see the article –as all the material based on political philosophy- have plenty of room for debate…!"
Debate is good.
"As far as for Sparta and liberalism you can check the Sparta Journal and its forthcoming articles…at http://www.sparta.markoulakispublications.org.uk/
"
Thanks again.
Hi David!
I thank you for your comments!!
You can find the excellent article by Arthur Fairbanks, 'Attitudes of Worship in Greece' on The Biblical World, (vol. 9, no. 2 pp. 98-111) at JSTOR:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0190-3578
(189702)9%3A2%3C98%3AAOWIG%3E2.0.CO%3B2-F
Cheers...
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